Give Yourself Some Credit

Give Yourself Some Credit

Jeremy Hill

Devin Miller

The Inventive Journey

Podcast for Entrepreneurs

10/1/2020

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The Inventive Journey

Starting and growing a business is a journey. On The Inventive Journey, your host, Devin Miller walks with startups along their different journeys startups take to success (or failure). You also get to hear from featured guests, such as venture firms and angel investors, that provide insight on the paths to a successful inventive journey.

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oftentimes you give you give other people too much credit and you don't give yourself enough and um i wish that that the the credit strategy it is that you know has been in my head for 10 years that we just started a year ago i would have started five years earlier and and because the amount of success it is that we're having now um would have been incredible to be a little five years further but you know it's we plan and god laughs and so here we are no problem right so i wish that i would have done that i wish i would have given myself personally more credit it is than i'd seen earlier [Music] hey everyone this is devin miller here with another episode of the inventive journey i'm your host devin miller the serial entrepreneur that's grown several businesses to seven and eight figure companies as well as the founder and ceo of miller ip law where we help startups and small businesses with their patents and trademarks and today we have another great expert episode and we have um jeremy hill on the podcast and jeremy will introduce himself in just a second but to give you a little bit of an intro so jeremy works a lot with a company called jb capital and they look to work with and help raise money do things with help companies with institutional investors large companies small companies allocating capital looking for different uh trends and how to help portfolio revenue all those but good buzzwords and he's going to expand on it a lot more so we'll have a great episode and we'll everybody will learn a little bit more about how to raise some money and how to grow a business so with that as much of an intro welcome on to the podcast jeremy thank you my friend i appreciate you having me that's wonderful i'm excited to share some time with you so i gave a very brief intro to you and gave a whole bunch of buzzwords but maybe if you just want to introduce yourself a little bit more to the audience and kind of your background what you do and then we'll jump into a little bit of your expertise yeah of course buddy thank you so much so uh name's jeremy hill and uh founder and managing partner of the company called jb capital out in seattle and so company has been around uh 20 years and so you know our nearly 20 years i guess and so uh for nearly 20 years we had been in the investment banking advisory world and so companies would retain us like you would retain you know you as as either council or one thing or another uh you know as a as a hitman of capital you know for lack of a better word right to where uh we'd get retained it is to go out and solve problems just growing companies most of those problems had something to do with something to do with something to do with money and so we got pretty good at both the the advisory work and the transaction work of putting debt deals together for companies so over that period of time is about three dollars worth of advisory and transaction work and so primarily focus on debt driven transactions for companies under 250 million dollars in revenue so these are the guys that are past the friends and family mom and dad rich uncle round are raising money but they're not yet to a point to where they can warrant attention from guys on wall street or something like that um about a year ago uh as everybody's business yours and mine and everybody's continues to evolve ours evolved as well and we've made the election it is to move out of the middle and do from a principal position uh what it is we've been doing for everybody else forever so um basically we formed our own private credit strategy to where it is we're now investing and doing off of my balance sheet and our investors balance sheet what it is that we've been doing for you know some of the largest companies and families across the country for years and years now so we operate a basically a private version of a commercial bank and we provide you know growth capital to companies across the country that are doing interesting things so with that and i said you said now when you do so you've got the two or two different kind of businesses do you both run both of those in parallel no so we're we're pretty much out of the the investment making and advisory business right so you know by default or dumb luck or you know whatever you want to call it right it is truly this yeah both right exactly the the truth is this last you know 18 19 years of doing deals and working with entrepreneurs and companies and their and their founders and their advisors and everything else has really served us as almost the perfect um education and proving ground it is to to act as a principal now right and so there's there's not much that we haven't seen now of course as soon as i say that tomorrow there'll be something to be like wow i've never seen that before you know but the the reality is is that um we're kind of out of that business and really just truly looking to take kind of the knowledge and experience it is that we have bring our capital to basis and and and hopefully have a a very catalytic effect on what it is that our capital does to you know john's software business or whatever they're doing okay no that makes sense and last question then let's jump into some expertise and get some knowledge from you so your current com current structure what kind of range are you looking to invest in or kind of what is your sweet spot is kind of sure yeah so we're we're we're kind of two to 12 million dollar check size right and so i'm typically investing uh so i'm a credit investor right which means fancy way of saying i'm a lender i loan money now we can exist anywhere up and down the capital stack so i can be senior uh it can be sub mez unitron we can do a pref piece we can do a number of different structures i'm just not an equity guy i just that's not how i view the world and so i view the world a little bit different and so that's where it is that we play and so typically one to three year terms so i'm not i'm not trying to be an overnight bridge lender and i'm not trying to be private equity so we're not a we're not a one-night stand and we're not a marriage proposal right you know we're we're kind of somewhere in the middle somewhere that dating but not getting married you got it we're dating the millennial generation which i i always try to avoid myself from being in the hanging out stage so we're hanging out we're doing netflix and chill or whatever right so now and and you know so a lot of our audience some of them are going to be in your range a lot of them are going to be lower than that right they're going to be anywhere from a startup that i have an idea and we're now getting a bootstrapping it all the way up to their been in business for a few years and they may be in the you know one or two plus million dollar range or they may be hundreds of thousands breaking a million but those type of things but you know if they were now saying we're we're before this right so we haven't reached the level of investor that would be two million plus dollars but we want we're want to set ourselves up for that what are some of the things to look air to do good things to do to get yourself in a good situation so when they reach that and they go out to somebody that is going to be an investor of that range and or what are some of the red flags that they should avoid yeah and and great questions and it's it's it's prudent for companies and their founders and their leadership teams it is to start having a lot of those conversations earlier right because it's it's it's easier to have those conversations earlier when there's less moving parts in the business um than to try to figure it out you know after the you know cake is half baked right kind of thing right so i would say the the first things it is to do when you're starting out is just make sure it is that you're organized right like make sure and it's easy to say this and i know devin this is the same advice it is that you give from a council standpoint is just you know make sure your ducks are in a row make sure you just you you have your documents your reporting your your uh your kind of financial metrics in order it is and all of that stuff lines up like i don't want to look at one document and it tells me one forecast and look at another one and it tells me another right because it it either means you're disorganized or you know what the hell you're doing or a combination of both right um you want to have those things and so really early on it is important to invest in the right type of advisors you want to make sure that you have the the right type of cfo or right type of controller right type of financial advisor with you it doesn't have to be a full-time finance guy it could be a half-time or a fractional cfo there's nothing wrong with that when you're starting out don't let anybody tell you any different right make sure that those guys are there to help you make sure it is that you get the right you know kind of attorney from from an incorporation standpoint for what it is that you're wanting to do going forward and that they're giving you good advice from just kind of a formation standpoint so i'm going to jump in and ask one before because yeah so with that organization so let's say because you'll have a lot of startups a small business that absolutely should be organized and they're not right meaning a lot of times you get to where hey i'm on a shoestring budget or even if you got past the shoestring budget you're still in that mode right we're pinching pennies or you get founders that really don't love to do the finance so they don't pay as much of attention so let's say i know that you get in that stitch or you have something in that situation and they now but they want then now they're saying we have to go and do cleanup but we have to go and fix it we have to do that do you have any advice for those type of individuals saying hey we need to get ready for investors we don't we haven't done a good job of bookkeeping should they go hire someone what are you kind of what are your thoughts on that does that make sense yeah i mean again so if if companies are getting ready to go to a stage to where they're going to go out and have money conversations you know whatever that money conversation is whether it's with you know the local rich angel investor or even a more professional seasoned investor the the more organized it is that you are the better you articulate their story the more uh um you know kind of better prepared and organized your financial statements and your your accounts and you know where it is that you've been spending money the better it is that that's organized and presented to the investor that ultimately the better effect and the better conversations it is that you're going to have with those guys it just it doesn't you could have the greatest idea in the whole wide world but if you're totally scattered early stage is so much of it is is is the idea but it's also it's also the jockey on the horse right right you're betting on the ability it is to be able for joe to execute his idea right everybody's got a great idea in the shower at two o'clock in the morning right cool who cares it's it's the ability to execute on that idea and so i would say that that really before it is that you go out and have meaningful conversations is you're going to substantially increase your batting average if you've got your together if you're organized if your ducks are in a row if your docks are together and your financial statements look good it doesn't have to be perfect it doesn't but it does have to be organized okay and so then one last follow and then i'm sure there are a few others will hit on with that if you're if you're not good at that do you go and hire the you know and i'll call the finance guy or the cpa or somebody of that nature to come in and help you do that on a temporary basis i mean you kind of mention hey you can do it on go hire a part-time person than that if it that that's kind of if you're saying hey i need to get this organized i'm not that guy could then go and find that cfo or part-time cfo or at least a good cpa or something of that nature 100 percent yeah 100 there is most of the big regional firms and even most of the the the local kind of community and you know many regional firms it is wherever it is that you are wherever your audience is will have uh um you know a bookkeeper in our accounting type you know practice built into their built into their cpa practice to where instead of paying somebody 175 250 bucks an hour to come in and do that they've got a 60 an hour guy that can come in and spend 10 hours for you and clean up and it's i know for entrepreneurs they hate spending money on that because that's not cool right i totally get it kind of like some intellectual property it's not cool until you need it and then when investors say hey how do you how do you protect this and like oh that's a good question then it's cool but yeah exactly right exactly right you just yes it's worth it's worth spending the money to have somebody help you clean that up and if you're not good at it you trying to do it is just going to frustrate yourself so just focus on the stuff that you're good at as an entrepreneur and high wrap your higher at your weaknesses hire the stuff it is that you're not the best at okay no so i think that's good so that's one one one we only got in one before i i started to ask questions but be organized make sure you have good finance and so if people are in startup stage if they're wanting to get set up or ready to go to an investor or they're getting ready to pitch make sure your numbers are clear that they're congruent that your numbers are have been gone through either by if you're good at it yourself or make sure to hire that person that can do that so that's one piece of advice and sound like you had a couple others so maybe yeah i mean the thing is that everything too is that number one you you need to know what it is that you're looking for right just like just like all of us it is when you're looking for a spouse there's plenty of different choices right you know you can say i don't want i like long walks on the beach and making love after midnight listening to jimmy buffett you know whatever whatever your story is right it's it's the same thing when you're when you're looking for a financial partner so the the first thing it is that you need to really think about and uncover is that for where your business is what it is that you're looking to accomplish do are you looking for an equity partner or are you looking for a lender and so the for me in my view it's just my opinion but i've always looked at debt like dating and equity like marriage right and so if you are going out and looking for an equity partner i want to raise a million dollars for my business or whatever the number is it doesn't matter if i'm going to go raise money for that business and i'm going to give up 10 or 50 or whatever the number is for my business for doing so i want i want people to think about that like you're walking down the aisle picking out china patterns and about to say i do right and so for me personally the only person it is that i've ever wanted to partner with or be married to is my wife right and so we've been married almost 25 years and she's pretty freaking awesome right she's totally hot too which is a bonus right but for for folks it is that are looking at a business partner like that you need to put in the time it is to understand who you're going to be married to because just like just like a marriage just like me for my wife there's plenty of things it is that that could be totally uplifting and and fill a void and allow you to do things in your life it is that you wouldn't do without that support and that that that partnership the right business partner can do that too but everybody knows somebody it is who's had a bad marriage or has gone through a divorce or done one thing or another and it can wreck you emotionally it can wreck your finances it can screw up your kids it can do all sorts of stuff right and that that's also like choosing the wrong business partner like it can it can dramatically impact in a negative way your business work can put the business out of business so if if you're not going to date and borrow money you're going to go get married there's nothing wrong with that but but do make sure it is that you know what you're looking for in a partner so diving into this that a bit more because i completely agree and you can have there's either you can have a great partner that absolutely helps to grow the business or it can be a crappy partner that you hate and you can't wait to get out and figure out how to dissolve the partnership right but if you were to look and say what you know if a lot of if you get into a small business or startup they're saying all i know is i need money right and they're saying you know either we have purchase orders that we can't fulfill so we need to get money or they're saying hey we need to have money in order to actually develop the product or we have sales and now we're going but we need we want it growing we want to expand or we need more team members to really ratchet this up whatever the case is for money what are some of the ways that you figure out who your part the partner that you want is right if you know you need the money but then beyond that you haven't you don't you're not experienced what are some of the ways or things that you should look at or think about when you're trying to identify who is a good partner yeah totally great question so you said it perfectly right is that most of these entrepreneurs it is they just know they need money right like they don't care if they get it from you or from me or from the easter bunny like it doesn't matter but i need 250 grand and i need it tomorrow and do i got any takers right like who's in right you know so it's everybody when you look at like uh an equity partner right everybody has heard of you know either an angel investor or a high net worth guy there's somebody in your community in my community it is that this is joe the rich guy it is who loves looking at companies right so that's typically an angel investor everybody's heard of venture capital as well right and then they've heard of private equity in the newspapers and stuff like this and so each of these guys it is um their capital works differently and so it's important for entrepreneurs as they're going out and thinking about what it is that they want to understand what kind of partner it is that they want and what that partner's expectations are for their capital and so for companies it is that are earlier stage they're at the idea stage or they're just kind of sort of getting off the ground or you know they're a little bit further but they're not yet to a point to where it is that you know they're a million or two or five or ten or profitable or one thing or another a lot of these guys are getting started from either friends and family loans or rich uncle loans or the local you know angel investor loans right and so most of those guys in either a seed investment or an angel investment these are typically smaller check sizes could be anywhere from five grand up to you know a couple hundred grand typically most of those guys are taking a significant degree of risk and putting that capital to work based upon where the business is right and so as a result of which they're typically going to want a bigger whack right like they're going to expect a bigger return like you know probably 20 50 times or greater on their money for taking a risk at where it is that that business is right and so people need to understand that the as the business gets more established we've heard of venture capital right and so venture capital still will work with younger earlier stage companies that are either at seed stage or pre-revenue or maybe have their first you know few customers and their you know their their v1 product is done and that kind of thing right and these guys depending upon the size of their fund or writing checks from 250 grand candidly up to probably 10 million earlier stage companies for them most of the venture capitalists are really looking for honestly about a 10x return on their money within 36 to 48 months max right and so the old-school formula of vcs was we're going to look at 100 companies to invest in 10 and the tenant is that we invest in you know six are going to probably go to crap two or three you're gonna do okay and one of them we're gonna shoot the lights out on right and so and then they hope the one that they shoot the lights out on becomes you know ebay or facebook or one thing or another to make up for the losses for the other thing right and so they're really looking at running a process it is to take devin and jeremy's software business or idea or whatever it is that we have from a to b really really quickly so that there's a liquidity event so they can go do it again so those guys are going to look for more involvement in your business a bigger slug of equity and they want to be kind of in and out into the next stage of capital within kind of 36 months and they're looking for a 10x return on their business okay as businesses mature and this may not be you know really where your audience is but private equity is typically coming into more midstream and upstream companies it is that are kind of 10 million in revenue up to you know 100 million or even up to a billion and they're really rather than looking on multiples of i want 10 times my money they're looking to try to map back to a 15 to 20 percent irr on their capital they're typically using leverage in some way or another to kind of juice the returns of the equity it is that they put in and then over a five or seven year period of time they want to exit that investment and whether that exit is selling to another private equity firm or taking a company public or one thing or another so for the investors that are trying to figure out where they fit for the earlier stage guys you got to know the typically the earlier on that you are um you know you may be in a situation to where it is that you're giving up more than you should and so um it's always good to find friendly capital if you can find it you know you can advise guys on putting a safe deal together right you know so there's there's opportunities like that so maybe shifting gear i'm going to flip the question almost 180 degrees when is the time that you shouldn't be looking for money right and i get it if you're talking to you know it's kind of like you're talking to a patent tree should i never get a patent or trademark it's always a bit of a biased answer because you always see it through the lens of this is beneficial but when are the times that you're saying this i wouldn't advise someone to go raise money or i wouldn't invite somebody even if because even if somebody is coming say i'd like to invest you're saying hey it doesn't you i wouldn't recommend that you take that money because it's not and you touched on it a little bit but what are you know maybe any thoughts on that as to sometimes when you shouldn't when you should turn down money or shouldn't go out and look for it well i mean two different questions right so when you should turn down money um and then when you shouldn't go look for it right i think that they're you shouldn't you should turn down money if there's no other benefit to that money than money so one of the one of the rules for us as we're looking at companies is that that if the only thing it is that i'm providing to joe's software business is a check then not only should he not take my money but i shouldn't give it to him right and so for companies as they're early on in kind of building once they begin the kind of dating process of looking at investors and meeting with people and that kind of thing is great if they're getting attention there even if they can come to terms that says you know jeremy's going to invest in devin's abc company whatever it is if the only thing i bring is money then i just commoditized my my my offering right like you you want somebody that not only is going to come in and invest in the business but they can open two new doors from you or for you it is that you couldn't do on your own right or they they can walk you into two customers that you've been trying to get into that won't return your calls because you don't have i mean whatever it is it doesn't matter what it is but there's got to be more value than money if there is not more value than money then i i don't ever recommend that guys take that for companies when you should or shouldn't look for money there is an old adage that you and i probably heard and told a thousand times is that if you ask for money you're gonna get advice and if you ask for advice sometimes you get money right and so it's really it's beginning for these entrepreneurs it is to start surrounding themselves with people that are showing interest in the markets of what it is that they do so if devon is not a software investor or you're a software investor and i'm a real estate guy i'm not going to come to you and pitch you a real estate deal because you don't care it's you know i'm a i'm a software guy right you know and so know that audience and start to talk to people about what it is that you're doing so if you can get meetings or somebody it is that'll champion you a meeting with an investor or a local vc or a local angel group there's nothing wrong with going in and not pitching for money but just sharing your story my name is jeremy here's what it is that i'm doing here's my background here's what i'm working on we're developing something great we see this we're not looking for money right now but we will be in the future and i just wanted to get to know you because i've heard great things about you how do you guys like to invest and where do you find value and how do you work with companies like this and don't ask for money you you will you will find the most successful guys like that especially if you haven't already built and exited two or three or four deals or your brother's not rich or on the board of one thing or another looking at it that way is refreshing because every freaking person that calls that guy is pitching him asking i'm the greatest thing in the world give me money right you know and so if you don't do that and you're really genuinely just there trying to learn about them and saying look i'm working on something great i'm not ready to talk to you yet but i wanted to introduce myself so when i call you you know who i am no i think that that's and that's an interesting way to pitch it so all right shifting one gear and this is a bit of a tangent but so i'll ask it anyway thoughts on shark tank is you know and you and i'll i'll give the context to my question that'll let you see what you're thinking just because that's what everybody sees you know that's where everybody's ideas of hey i'm gonna go with shark tank they're gonna give me a whole bunch of money but you know one thing is is they always pitch that they they can add value right where they can add doors whether it's because they're on qvc or they're on a home shopping network or they're you know bed bath and beyond or they have a whole bunch rolodex and probably some degree true if nothing else because they've been on tv and they and they have lots of money but like shark tank don't like shark tank is it realistic not realistic or give give it a little bit of thought just because that's one that's well-known well i mean so people need to realize that shark take first is entertainment right like it's a television show right you know now there there is merits to it for exposure so the ins and outs of how the contracts work on shark tank i don't know from a perfection standpoint i do know it is that if you come on and you get pit and you are able to pitch that there is a there is a shark shark tank group or llc or something it is it gets a skin of your business it is for the exposure on television regardless of whether they invest right and so we've seen a number of businesses it is that either didn't take the deal from the sharks or one thing or another that their business has actually grown pretty substantially because they just got in front of 20 million eyeballs right whether it's customers or investors i know a few people personally that are friends of mine it is that their business has been featured on shark tank and they have had money it invested from you know shark 123 whoever it is and one has done okay and one has done nothing you know so it it really again still goes back that you know mark cuban and damon jones and lori and herjavec and you know all these guys super cool and all of them are what mr wonderful can't forget about that dude and you know you that all of them have been wildly successful in their life and it's really cool but it's tv first right it's meant for entertainment so the three minute clip that is that you see on there of what's published on tv is about three hours of you and i pitching and going back and forth with the sharks that they consolidate into about five minutes of television yeah that's one thing i think is really which a lot of people don't think about to your point you're seeing a very high like clip and so you know it can make someone that's very good at pitching you're very smart look stupid and they can make anybody that's not looking very good make them look wonderful because they narrow down and they try and narrow down to make it the most interesting one of the other things just as my thought our side is it's interesting you go through and you look at the number of deals that fall through even after they've committed to invest on the show is quite high i mean they have i think i looked at at one point it's only like one in like two or three and ten at most actually after they get all the way through due diligence actually get invested even on the show but i think that's also probably somewhat reflective of the investing market as a at large in the sense that just because somebody that says that they're going to give you money they still have to do their due diligence and maybe they do that before they come in if they give you a soft commit um they're going to have to do due diligence and you might as well tell them the truth up front because they're going to figure it out during due diligence whole lot better to be honest and up front and not try and hide that than it is to wait till they discover it themselves a thousand percent and it again just like you said right it's um and so for those guys that don't watch shark think they watch the bachelor there's always a proposal but how many of them have gotten married like right you know so it the this goes back it is to ultimately again whether it's whether you're a lender or an equity investor or whoever it is one of the the best pieces of advice it is that i ever got or ever heard i remember the day that it was i remember what i was wearing and the city it is that i was in and the cigar i was smoking at the time and literally the advice was jeremy as your business grows and as you do more and more deals and more and more partnerships the single thing that you need to remember is the contracts are for the divorce but not for the marriage and i was like oh like a ton of bricks that hit me right and so for anybody as they're going in like the early stages of your business whether it's whether you've gone out for an investor or not or whether you've come in with your best friend your brother-in-law or whoever it is as a business partnership it's always romantic at first it's always happiness and flowers and sonnets and chocolates and love and you know it's all that at first relationship ever you know right it's always like that until it's not and it's it's important it is to have those hard conversations about what marriage is going to be like up front right because it just it's paramount importance especially when it is that you're going in with an investor and they said hey great i'm going to put a million dollars into your company for this that the other thing awesome spend a lot of time on what happens it is when you disagree with that investor or they disagree with you or you don't meet your numbers or you want to do this and they want to do that just it's critical yeah and i think that's and that's why i think peop part of the there are a lot of reasons why people hate attorneys but that's why a lot of times they don't they always dread getting attorneys involved because attorneys you're almost trying to think of worst case scenarios right what if this happens like well that will never happen you're like yeah but if it does happen it's our job to guard against you and so you know and it's a fine line on the attorney side of you don't want to always be known as the deal killer the person that always comes in and wrecks a good you know otherwise a good relationship because you point out all the possibilities and so there is that balance but i think to your point the agreements and that's why you're setting up it's not if everything goes well nobody even pulls out the agreement and worries about it it's only when things start to go crappy or you know it's starting to go downhill and people are thinking now how do i get my money back or how do i get the equity back or you know anything of the above that they pull out the agreement and say what are my options so i think yeah it's legal insurance right it's like life insurance car insurance or anything it's a pain in the butt until you get a wreck right it sucks until somebody dies right so it's it's the same thing there yeah so as we wrap up and i there are so many more things i think it'd be fun to talk about that we just never have time but so i i got one more question and i guess i'll jump to my what i normally do you just answer normally on a podcast i ask two questions and the one is i always ask is what is the one piece of advice you give to start with small business i think you just gave that a lot i'll ask the second other question always ask but i'll broaden it out a bit because you worked a lot of different businesses and invest and whatnot what is the worst piece or worst business decision either you've made or that you've seen another business make oh man how much more time do we have you know i think one of the for myself personally one of the worst not worst decisions but one of the decisions i wish that i would have changed is two things is number one i wish that i would have moved from uh banker to principal sooner and i think that for uh myself because i'm human just like you and everybody listening is that um oftentimes you give you give other people too much credit and you don't give yourself enough and i wish that that the the credit strategy it is that you know has been in my head for 10 years that we just started a year ago um i would have started five years earlier and and because the amount of success it is that we are having now um would have been incredible to be a little five years further but you know it's we plan and god laughs and so here we are no problem right so i wish that i would have done that i wish i would have given myself personally more credit it is than i'd seen earlier no and i think that that has expansive reach right in the sense that a lot of times it i now this is broadening out a little bit beyond what you said but you know you always as an example a lot of times as a business you you are you always are looking for that guy right usually it's a marketing or sales game we just get the right marketing and sales guy we'll take off we'll we'll go to the moon and that's the one guy and yet too often i think to almost your point people don't give themselves enough credit most of the time the best person they can sell the business is the ceo is the founder they're the ones that most excited know it the best and can do the best job and so i think to your point whatever the circumstance is give yourself more credit and have more faith in yourself is a is a great takeaway from them well as as we wrap up so people want to now pitch you for investing they want to and i don't know if that's what you want but whether or not they're looking for investor they want to get advice they want to understand what are the red flags are they ready get connections with you or or just or disconnect up you in general any or all the above whichever you want to do what is the best way to reach out or connect with you oh thank you for asking so i'm happy to talk to anybody in your audience and whether we're the right guy for you or not i'm happy to just be your friend and see if i can point you in the right direction but for those folks it is that want to reach out to us uh you know we're at jb capital.com on the web right so you can just look up jb capital and you'll find us same thing on linkedin and all social channels if you want to reach out to me personally it's just jeremy b hill on linkedin or you can check us out and we've got the jeremy b hill show is a podcast it is that's all across google and spotify and apple and everywhere else you can find us wherever it is that you want so but yeah happy to talk to anybody in your audience and see if we can help them i appreciate that and i i encourage everybody to reach out especially those that are fitting in with yours but even those that aren't i'm sure you're more than happy to give them their direction as to where who to reach out to so well thank you for coming on it's been a pleasure now for those of you that are have a whether you're an expert and want to come on and share your expertise or just have a journey to tell feel free to reach out to us at inventivejourneyguest.com and apply to be on the podcast second if you're uh if you're a listener make sure to click subscribe so you get this episode and all the new episodes and lastly if you ever need help with patents and trademarks feel free to reach out to us at miller iplaw and we're always happy to help thank you again jeremy it's been a fun time and a pleasure and uh appreciate all the great advice thank you my friend i enjoyed it you English (auto-generated)