How To Use Email Marketing

How To Use Email Marketing

Matt Rouse
Devin Miller
The Inventive Journey Podcast for Entrepreneurs

How To Use Email Marketing

Everybody thinks that the only thing you need to watch out for on email is to get out of the spam box. But, there are actually several steps to having an email gets delivered to the person that you are trying to reach before that system even decides to put it in the spam box or not. That process is called deliverability. Deliverability has a number of factors in it. Some of them can be related to your domain or whether you're on a blacklist, do you have the correct thing set up in your DNS settings for that. Those are all technical requirements.


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are actually several steps to having an email get delivered to the person that you're trying to reach before that system even decides to put it in the spam box or not and that process called deliverability and deliverability has a number of factors in it some of them can be related to your domain whether you're on a black list do you have the correct things set up in your dns settings for that those are all technical requirements hey everyone this is devin miller with another episode of the inventive journey i'm your host devin miller the serial entrepreneur that's grown several startups in the seven and eight figure businesses as well as a ceo and founder of miller ip law where we help startups and small businesses with their patents trademarks and other things related to their business and now if you and if you ever need help with yours just go to grab some time with us we're always here to chat now today we have another great expert episode with uh matt rouse and to give you kind of a quick intro so matt does several different things he also has his own podcast and he was gracious enough to have me on there as well and it's all called digital marketing masters podcast so he does a lot of digital marketing with um with his firm and offer those services now today we're specifically you know name of his agent agency is uh hook or hook seo now what specifically we've had a few other people that are a bit in digital marketing but one thing the area that we haven't covered that thought would be certainly of interest and be worthwhile is on email marketing so there are a lot of questions on email marketing everywhere from should you spam should you not spam if you don't spam or you do spam how should you do it you know what's the key to building a list do you need to have a big list or a small list and target it and what software's to use and how to grow this should you go out and buy a list of a whole bunch of people or is that a bad idea so a lot of fun things to talk about that i think we can dive into email marketing so with matt that much is an introduction welcome on to the podcast map thanks for having me on the show absolutely so maybe just uh before we dive into all of the fun things of emo marketing give everybody just a one or two minute kind of quick background as to why you're the expert why you know what you're talking about and why they should listen to you sure so i've been working on email marketing uh since the late 90s um i was doing it with a company in western canada for a little while kind of helping them out as as just part of a role that i had at that business and and then i was an i.t contractor for technology and some marketing companies and over the years uh you know a lot of times it would come up they're just like does anybody in the company know anything about email marketing because we have this issue or we have this problem or you know we want to say html email but nobody knows html in the whole company because it's 1999 you know so that kind of thing happened and then i would say probably the biggest step forward in email marketing was i got this frantic call out of the blue and there was an agency in downtown portland oregon and the person who handled their largest email marketing client just never showed up to work uh like like kind of no call no showed on them for like two days and they have a list of over a million people for this international furniture retailer and they have to code hand code and send out an email marketing message to them and they had to send it out that day and so they brought me in and i took that over and over the next uh six to nine months ish i can't remember exactly how long i worked with them until they found someone to take over for me to train for that position we were able to increase their sales substantially increase their list improve how we determined what were the best ways for them to send email and uh and and uh how to do like certain types of split testing and stuff like that so um and then from there you know through the agency we've worked with hundreds of clients doing email marketing so i've made hundreds of businesses millions of dollars with email hey well that's a pretty good claim hundreds of businesses millions of dollars so that's that's awesome so i think that's a great introduction so kind of now with that as kind of setting the stage for um or talking a little bit about email marketing and how what the do's and don'ts are and kind of when you get into it i'll start out with the hard-hitting questions i put that in parentheses for people that can't do it but one of the questions that seems to come up a lot you know and you get everything from spam email people that are trying to sell you spam email lists that are stabbing you to linkedin to fiverr to and i know there are a lot of other services about buying an email list and i know that there are a lot of different things we talked about but one of the things that you know i get the question in a decent amount of time and i see it come up is should you buy an email list or should you buy or grow it organically and for those of you that are you know maybe less familiar buying an email list and you can certainly correct me where i'm wrong matt it's basically the idea that you have people that go and collect information some of them are more reputable some of them are less and it could be everything from they go scrape the internet or they scrape linkedin they could actually go and have people that opt in so sometimes it's more legitimate where they go to websites or they sign up to actually get the information but a different various different ways where they compile lists of a lot of different people that then you can actually go buy that contact information from that email that individual and then send out an email to all of those people on the list and that's generally how a lot of spammers get to where they're at not all of us spam but a decent amount that's why you get emails that you don't ever remember signing up for that are people that are sending you whatever the ad is or whatever service they're trying to sell you so maybe jumping into that good idea bad idea good ways to do it bad ways to do it on kind of buying an email list and kind of maybe give us a bit of insight on that map sure so i think for the majority of companies do not buy an email list and the reason you don't want to buy an email list is a lot of times those lists are either not up to date or they were not collected in well let's say a very business friendly way so they could have been pulled from companies that have had like email information stolen out of their databases posted on the dark web they could be buying databases and then posting them as legitimate lists you never know what the quality of your list is gonna be when you buy it um a lot of mail sending companies will put what they call trojan horse emails in those which is an email address that tells them that you bought the list because they know how to get on the lists to get purchased and then they'll just lock out your email account for spamming and because when you use an email service provider you are agreeing that you are bringing in people who asked to be on your list that's part of the terms of service so they can deny you service based on that problem now that said if there are some instances where buying a list um is okay it may even be a good idea there's not very many of those but you can there are services and stuff where you could what one question is so that's kind of its own episode yeah one question for you is you know diving into and i want to hear when it is or when is a good way to do it if you do it but what is sounds like generally don't go buy an email list you're going to get on as spammerless you're going to have negative repercussions and if you don't know what you're doing it's better not to do it what are some of the reasons why you may buy an email list or why that may be beneficial or why it's not why it wouldn't be a bad idea well so a good example is like trade show lists i know there's not a lot of trade shows right now obviously because but um if you were an exhibitor at a trade show they would give you an option the trade show list the trade show list is an opt-in to say that they are going to give that information potentially to vendors at the conference and so that is a list that you can purchase safely that has correct email addresses on it and you know what industries those people are in so if you're going to for example the specialties coffee conference then you're going to have all the people who are buyers of coffee go to that conference and if you have if you're like a coffee roaster that might be a good list for you to purchase okay no that makes sense but that one is almost your point is then it's not going to be one that's filled with illegitimate emails because it's not the ones that are sold on the dark web right not the one that you're going to be marked as a spammer necessarily because they've opted in and they're now you may still have a high unsubscription rate and you may have a lot of people who don't like it but at least it's not the one that is full hey we're going to get the email provider that's going to say they they bought the list and we're going to blacklist the type of a thing so now one kind of question to follow up so let's say either you you do buy the list and maybe it's a legitimate we take it either way let's say you bought it illegitimately which as we said don't do or you bought it more legitimately what's a trade show or you know kind of like those home you know almost it used to be the home and gardens or sometimes you go to gun shows or you go to you know you do the different trades or whatever it is where you sign up for those you know should you be should you just take the you buy the list should you take it whole cloth and just simply go through and start using the list or should you scrub it or what should you do because you know at least my limited knowledge is sometimes if you get a huge unsubscribe rate or it's an abnormal for your industry you can have the email provider that get flags you or otherwise you know bans you or limits you and otherwise so if you were to go by legitimate or illegitimate and we'll just treat them as the same for now what should you be doing with that list before you just start blasting it to everybody so there's everybody thinks that the only thing that you need to watch out for on email is to get out of the spam box but there are actually several steps to having an email get delivered to the person that you're trying to reach before that system even decides to put it in the spam box or not and that process called deliverability and deliverability has a number of factors in it some of them can be related to your domain whether you're on a black list do you have the correct things set up in your dns settings for that those are all technical requirements then there is large providers like your gmail hotmail rocketmile yahoo comcast all these types of providers they will have a scanning system that they use to try and get it's kind of a first check to see if they can get rid of stuff that might be full of viruses or just unwanted emails um the next step a lot of them and this the use of this is kind of some use it some don't but nobody tells you what they use for security and that's an engagement based process where let's say your list has a hundred thousand people on you got a nice big list and you send i have that hundred thousand ten thousand of them go to gmail well gmail is not gonna deliver all 10 000 emails right away they'll deliver like a thousand and they'll see if those thousand people if the majority of them mark it as spam they won't deliver the other nine thousand they just delete them so they don't even end up in a spam box they just don't get delivered at all so engagement can be an effect on your deliverability also once it actually gets delivered then it can have a decision whether it goes into a promotions folder or like on gmail or it could go into a spam folder or if you get into the inbox so there's all of these steps that happen before the email actually reaches somebody's inbox now if you have a 100 opt-in list you have a way better chance of that email making it to the person who's going to read it and you got to remember we haven't even talked about whether somebody's going to open a read your email yet this is just getting it to them right so there's a lot of things that have to go right for your emails to get to your clients so now let's say because one and that's interesting i didn't know that on gmail but it definitely makes sense and so is that you know do they look at it as a pure is it marking it when you say engagement and backing up there's a couple things that come to mind with engagement one is that if people market as spam you know a threshold amount of people mark it as spam gmail's just not going to do it and i'm sure there are some that may other providers that may do the same thing and then the other one is okay engagement can also mean not only do they get it in their inbox should they delete it or they actually open it does gmail look at the open rates or the whether they get it or they does that not factor into that portion of it yeah they're going to look at the open rates too um you know people are opening and reading it it's probably gonna get but if everybody deletes it or you know even some of the market is spam it's probably not going anywhere um also the wording that's in your emails like the actual wording of the subject line the wording that's in the body who the reply to email address is who the email is from all of those things including the headers the ip address range it's sent from all of those things can affect whether it goes in the inbox or the spam box so getting everything right is difficult so now let's say you get first of all getting everything right you know it's difficult you know some of the tips i think that if i did maybe summarize are the takeaways one would be don't go buy any especially if you don't know what you're doing good don't go buy an email list and you know we can talk maybe in a minute about if you buy an email list or you talked about their ways to scrub or otherwise give you a better likelihood but let's general person if you don't know what you're doing don't go buy an email list two is if you're buying an email list don't do it that it's too spammy in other words that people are they going to market as spam and they may have opted in and what's interesting is we have an email list you know with miller ip law we'll have people that opted in that are clients that they will they'll still unsubscribe and some of them still market as spam even though that they they signed up and they legitimately opted in just because they don't necessarily know what spam is or they don't know what it means when they get that list of four or five questions when you unsubscribe and you choose one of the options that no i didn't sign up for this well you signed up you just didn't remember but you get past those hurdles right so one is don't make it you know don't buy a list don't make it too spammy make it so they actually want to engage and open it so you make it past that first hurdle and it gets in their inbox then what are some tips on how you actually get them to open it or get them to be active with it or actually work you know actually review the content you spend time doing it right so those percentages of people who unsubscribe that that did subscribe and stuff like that they're going to be really small especially if you're delivering good value in in your emails and stuff they're going to remember who you are they're going to see it repeatedly they're going to know your name that kind of thing and and they're pretty unlikely to unsubscribe or mark it as spam you're always going to get a few unsubscribes you know as you go you're gonna get kind of an attrition rate and you'll get to know what that is and you'll be able to say well how many subscribers do i need to consistently get to grow my list compared to the number that are leaving once you get to bigger lists you know you'll you'll start to learn what those percentages are and you know if you're if you have an existing business you probably have a number of customers that you have served in the past people who are vendors um people who may be in networking groups and stuff like that and the best way to kind of start off your list for your company is to reach out to all those people and ask them if they would like to be on your list right and that's an important step is to say you know this is what we're offering to send you if this is something that you would like then you can join our list that'll give you a base right somewhere to start and so the next step probably after that is going to be making something that you think your prospects or whoever it is that you're trying to reach with your business you need to find something that they want not necessarily what you want to send them but what they want to receive from you and once you figure that out you just ask them if they want you to email them that thing and then you email them that thing and then you should have some kind of ongoing reason why they want to stay in touch with you and that is the reason for your future emails and there's a number of ways to do it uh there's there's as many different types of businesses there's as many different types of reasons to be sending someone an email and you want to use that system to build a relationship where they're used to hearing from you they value what you're sending it's important to them they like it and from that that's how you keep people on your list from unsubscribing and that's how you use your list for things like you know sales and revenue and getting meetings and you know whatever the purpose of your list is you know it could be charity donations it could be event marketing there's all kinds of things that you can do but instead of buying a list getting that opt-in list um usually that'll be what we call lead magnet but it's something you're going to give someone if they sign up and then you need a reason for them to stay on your list and that's your content where you build a relationship with them over time so that when they need your product or service you're the person who comes to mind no and i think that that definitely makes sense and i think there's a lot of good value and i think almost now i this is an area that first of all i just find interesting so i i have a lot of questions myself but it's also trying to infuse questions that i've had other clients come up with as you do that you know one of the things that generally you're told that i think in the industry as is a level of consistency right in the sense that you want to consistently providing that value so one that they you're top of mind two that they're you know that you're continuing to reach out to them that they kind of get used to it and then they you know open it up but then they always have that trade-off of consistency versus value in the sense that if i you know and it seems like and interestingly i say that you know different industries you send to different amounts i mean i know some people that i've signed up in their email list and their newsletter list i get it every day i usually unsubscribe after a while because it's too often and yet others it only send it once a month or once a quarter and by that time it's yeah you don't get enough of you know you don't get enough contact or enough you know information it's usually the once a month or once a quarter it's a we got this new policy or this change and it's not really information i need so how do you balance consistency with providing that value to them such that you're consistently providing sending that in or newsletter emails out but you're also providing the value such that they actually want to open and interact with them right so you can't send too often if people want what you're sending them um if you have enough interesting things to say in an email that someone wants to read them every day then every day is fine but for most people every day is probably too much um you can also and we're talking about ongoing email marketing because there's other types of email marketing campaigns also we can get to that in a second but like a business like mine we send weekly we send them the same day and roughly the same time every week people kind of they expect it they know it and it's important to really try to deliver what it is that you've said you're gonna deliver to people and and just do the best you can at that thing um and for example ours we have a marketing agency so we tell stories that are related to marketing and when you sign up for the list it says we have interesting stories and marketing tips and that's what you're gonna get weekly to your inbox so they know what it's coming they know how often they're gonna get it and then they get delivered that thing and it's not uncommon for us i would say most times in most weeks when we send out our newsletter from our company we will get multiple emails back where people reply to our email and that is a foreign thing to most businesses and it shouldn't be if your email is good enough people should be replying to it and a lot of companies like larger companies will send out emails and they put like no reply as their address which basically is like saying i don't want to hear from my customers so that's a terrible idea but if you are a business that has maybe a retail component that gets used really often because it's going to depend on your sales cycle a good example is like a very specific like a real estate swag store you know maybe they sell things like stickers and stuff like that like all things real estate store is a good example or the a red store they would have one email a week that has maybe whatever's the new product that's in that week or any sales or anything and then they would have another email that is like an interview with an agent or has some tips about you know how to do real estate marketing uh and sales and then they would have another one uh and that other one would be like an announcement like we have a new podcast we have a video out something like that so you'll get two to three emails a week for that same company but in that context if the people want the stories they want the information they want to know when something like a new podcast or something is out plus they also want to see when the new products what's new what's cool that's perfect right two or three emails a week is fine if you're a plumber two or three emails a week is way too much right so it's gonna be different according to what kind of company you have and what you know what your business is and how much tolerance your clients have for the amount that you're sending so now no and i think that that's definitely valuable insight so now let's take you know intellectual property law firm as an example and i'm just using that because that's or what i do you know how do you because there's an a myriad of things that we could send out in an invoice and i'm sure that a lot of people face that they're not an invoice our newsletter um but they could send out as in you know as is type of content it could be everything from blog posts and it could be videos it could be podcast episodes you know links to those it could be you know um a myriad of different things and so and on different topics it could be very specific to patents or trademarks or copyrights it could be more startup or business uh generally related and all that so how do you kind of sit through and figure out which type of content best resonates with your audience do you do a b testing and trying different things out do you ask your audience or all the above or different things or kind of how do you gauge what is the best way that they what content that people want yeah so you can ask your audience um you can do split testing but then now you're writing two emails every week or whatever that you know every two weeks whatever your frequency of sending is i think most businesses that have been in business for at least a little while have a pretty good understanding of their clients um it can be a good idea to do something like a customer avatar worksheet or something like that where you can you know kind of rough down the information about you know who is your perfect client kind of thing and get the idea of who it is that you're talking to but uh for some someone like ip law like for miller ip law personally i think um stories about ip law would be an interesting thing for businesses where you know something like you know somebody maybe invented a product or they created something and some other company you know in china tried to knock it off and and so they had to fight with amazon about you know getting their listing up and getting the old listing off or whatever it is right and those kind of interesting business stories and then people can relate that to their business and maybe not everyone is going to be relatable to every person reading it and you know maybe they'll just delete that one but sooner or later they're going to get one that relates to them and they're going to still see miller i p law miller ip law miller ip law every time right especially if you're sending it you know from your name which you should be right devin miller is coming up in their inbox every week and then once in a while they're reading through the whole thing and reading the story and it's interesting and uh you know finding out about how businesses um use trademarks and you know um and and all the things that are around you know intellectual property uh but they you become identifiable in the rolodex for for all you young kids out there that's a that's a thing that people used to use before the internet to keep track of businesses uh your the rolodex in their brain will say devin miller is the ip law guy and they know that because you send them an email about it every week showing what an expert you are on that topic and when you are the identifiable expert in their brain for that topic no one else is the expert for that topic just you right somebody can say well i know 10 ip lawyers but they're only going to call one right so you want to be the one and you want to be the expert that's in their mailbox every single week telling them a story telling them something interesting right that makes them understand that not only do you know your stuff but you have entertained them you've informed them you're top of mind and then when they need an expert when they get that inevitable call from you know hey this blog that you had in 2016 had a photo that belongs to someone in france and now you owe us ten thousand dollars maybe i'm going to call devin miller because i got his email two days ago talking about something similar right no and i think that that's great and you know i think that i one of us it took us a little bit of time to really hone in on that and it wasn't necessarily a b testing you said that's that you know that becomes difficult we did try you know different formats and different types of images and layouts to kind of see what is you know a bit of optimizing i think that one's a little bit more easy to optimize but i think that you know honing in on what the audience is is certainly one you know one that makes it more valuable keeps it for front of mind and you're also resonating with the people you're sending it out to say don't feel like you're spamming because i think everybody gets spam all the time where you know that's why if you look at email open rates people a lot of times they go down just because people are overwhelmed with emails and sometimes it's even emails from people that i want to hear from and i just don't want to hear so frequently because it's not providing that value as you said now one kind of question especially for a startup or a small business is just getting into it just getting you know maybe they just started their business or they've you know this started growing or getting a small cut or a client or customer base is when they do that what are some of the softwares that they should think about using you know should it be uh i know there's a mailchimp there's constant contact you can do it through your crms like a hubspot or you can do it so is there a better a better software maybe whether it's usable or better or anything of that nature that softwares that they should be thinking about implementing it really depends on what the emails are going to be used for so an example would be if you're just sending out stories maybe they got a picture here and there uh my favorite program to use for that is called send fox and send fox is free up to a certain amount of subscribers but after that it's a one-time 49 payment and not a subscription so it can save you a ton of money over the years and you know it doesn't have a lot of the integrations and stuff you would get with other systems that you may need if you say have an e-commerce store um so you know if you have an e-commerce store you're on you know shopify or woocommerce or something if you want really advanced uh targeting and stuff like that with your emails then you'd want to use something like you can use mailchimp has some of those integrations as well as activecampaign is pretty good with that stuff but um if you don't need those kind of e-commerce integrations then you can go with um you know a mailchimp or a constant contact or something like that if you need say drip campaigns um or you want to use templates because you don't really have those in something like send fox there's tons of email marketing choices out there and it's difficult to kind of figure out which one you should use because here's what usually happens is they either took it over from another person at the company who used to do it so they use what the company's always used or their buddy uses mailchimp so they use mailchimp right they don't ever look at what are the features of all the different programs and what are the features that i need to be using and then kind of match it up by feature which is difficult to do when you don't know what all the features of all the programs are so it can take a little bit of research but man once you get the right fit with the right tool it's going to make your job a lot easier and you're going to you know be able to especially on the e-commerce side you're using procedurally generated emails to generate revenue so an example of a procedurally generated email would be something like an abandoned cart so if you've ever tried to buy anything but you left it in your cart and you didn't purchase it you've probably seen an abandoned cart email and that is did you leave something in your cart don't forget click here to go back and purchase it right and some programs you could do a banny cart series where it'll say okay after an hour send them a banner card email after 24 hours send them a second abandoned card email and after say 48 hours send them a 5 off coupon if they haven't purchased yet you know so you can do things like that if you use other kind of more advanced e-commerce applications like active campaigns stuff like that then you can do things like if somebody buys say like a barbecue then send them an email the next day to see if they want the barbecue cover that fits that barbecue right that's the kind of thing you get like from amazon right it does this all the time you buy one thing and then they send you related things do you buy a book that was written by one guy they'll send you the you know the next three books in the series will show up in your email the next day right so that kind of procedurally generated emails for e-commerce can really really grow your business and grow your revenue and uh it could be very profitable no i think that's some awesome insight and and definitely a lot of things to consider well as we start to wrap up the podcast and there's always so many more and this is an area that i find personally interesting so there are always so many more things that we could dive into but to keep it at a reasonable scope for the podcast if um we do have just as a reminder to people we have the bonus question coming up after the normal podcast where we talk a little bit about intellectual property and that's a top top ip question but before we do that as we wrap up for the normal episode if people want to reach out to you matt they want to know more about digital marketing in general they want to pick your brain on email marketing they want to be a client a customer they want to be an investor an employee your next best friend any or all of the above what's the best way to reach out connect up to you and find out more sure you can give me at or at our company address is hook and if you're interested we actually have a email training course as well that's just go to hook there's a button for training awesome well i definitely encourage everybody to reach out find out more user services i think that email is still a very pr dominant way to connect with people and when done right it can definitely have a big impact on your business and and grow it more along with a lot of other expertise that matt offers well as we wrap up thank you for coming on the podcast and now for all of you that are listeners if you have your own journey to tell whether you're an expert or you just have a journey to tell feel free to go to apply to be on the podcast love to hear your story if you're a listener make sure to click subscribe so you get notifications of all the awesome episodes come out and leave us a review so new people can find out about it as well last but not least if you ever need help with your patents trademarks or anything else with your business feel free to reach out to us at miller ip law by going to so with that we're going to transition over a bit and i always get asked the questions on the normal episode we got to flip the tables a bit and you get asked your number one intellectual or top intellectual property question and i have to answer that question so with that i'll turn it over to you matt to give me a give me your top question sure i have a good one for podcasts is what are the rules around using somebody else's music on your podcast yeah that's that's always a good one and it's it's a hard it can be a hard one the general answer and i'll give you the easy answer the general answer first is if you don't have right if it's a if you don't have rights to the the music don't use it in the sense that that's the easiest rule of thumb that if you don't know if you don't know if it's somebody else owns it if you don't know if you have rights to it don't use it because more likely than not not the answer is you don't have ownership now no the question is is hey one's if there's just a small snippet or a small bit of you know music that i really love and i just want to do it then you then if you want to if that you know if it's a popular song it's something that's out there you need to go get a license to it or otherwise sign up to get an agreement with them usually it's going to be with one of the few major publishing houses that are going to you can get licensed to use it because if you don't and they catch you it doesn't the myth that's out there is oh if i only use and there's a lot of different if i only use three seconds or five seconds or 10 seconds or whatever that is then i'm okay then i'm not infringing the copywriter they never catch me and that's really not the case 95 percent of time you're going to get yourself into trouble unless you really know what you're doing now the other option is when you're looking at music is if you don't say hey i don't want to go spend an exorbitant amount i'm just getting my podcast going here i'm just starting to use the music incorporated to whatever we're doing and the other kind of similar is if you're putting in like an intro video for your website or something or a youtube video but if you have that music there are several platforms that give you copyright fear license free type of music that you can integrate into it so that's another way that you can actually get some free music that has some good or good or good good music to it now the one caveat i'll give to that and it's not necessarily on uh on whether or not you're infringing someone's copyrights is sometimes if you use that music that's on those platforms a whole bunch of other people also use that same music and then you'll get onto youtube or some of the other ones that actually flag or look to flag if you they think there's a potential for copyright infringement they don't necessarily know whether or not it's copyrighted so they're going to see is this same music being used by someone else and more frequently earlier on and you may have a copyright free music that you're using and you still get flagged by youtube and it's not that you've done anything wrong but it's just their algorithms they use so the last thought i'd give is the other way you can do it is you can go on their services like fiverr others that will actually can pay someone they will generate a a new intro just for you make sure that they're reputable or they're doing it exclusive to you so they don't sell it to somebody else but then just say pay someone five or ten bucks have them create an intro to you then you don't have to worry about copyrights you don't have to worry about getting flagged because somebody else is also using it on youtube or other platforms and it creates the biggest headache so those are a few different thoughts as to how you start to navigate that minefield does that answer your question it does all right well with that i appreciate coming again on the podcast matt it's been fun it's been a pleasure it's been a great time definitely wish there was more time and lots of things to go through but he imparted a lot of knowledge and i wish the next leg of your journey even better than the last thanksgiving i appreciate you having me on the show you English (auto-generated)

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