The Business of People

The Business of People

Dr. Jacqueline Darna
Devin Miller
The Inventive Journey

6/11/2020

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The Inventive Journey

Starting and growing a business is a journey. On The Inventive Journey, your host, Devin Miller walks with startups along their different journeys startups take to success (or failure). You also get to hear from featured guests, such as venture firms and angel investors, that provide insight on the paths to a successful inventive journey.

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business is the business of people not products or services so what I mean by that is get out there find your tribe and make sure that you are well known and well seen that you are synergistic that you are your brand for the first five I'd even argue ten years really fun this is Devon Miller here with another episode of the inventive journey for those of you new to the news of the episode are new to the podcast I'm Devon Miller your host and we I'm the patent trademark attorney at Miller IP law where we help startups and small businesses with their patents and trademarks we also on the inventive journey talk though about the different journeys that startups and founders and small businesses take along their path to success so today on the the show we have dr. Jacqueline dharna I will let her introduce yourself because she'll do a much better job of that that I will so welcome the first and only three-in-one patented way to stop your worst symptoms in just 30 seconds utilizing my essential oil infuse acupressure device all right well that was a great intro as I said you did a better job of introducing you that I would so so with that let's jump a little bit back farther in your journey so your doctor obviously you started out in the medical profession so maybe tell us a little about that how did you start out in the medical profession and then how did you make the transition over to what you're doing now so I used to be a drug dealer by day and a naturalist by night oh I did practice anesthesia and again I actually went back and got my nmd as well so I am also a naturopathic medical doctor so it was really interesting to kind of have that Eastern it's the Western world and as cuddly everybody in our society especially here in the u.s. is so accustomed to medications but what's the problem with medicine they have horrible side effects and not only just horrible side effects but it takes a while for them to work sometimes 45 minutes for your body to digest them and then again other complications that could cause you have to take more medications so I came out on my mission because I was a patient and upon doing so nothing else in the medical realm of medication that's important for me so I had to think outside the pillbox and not-so gave me my idea all right so if you take that in a dissected a little bit so I think it wasn't you said yet yeah or having some headaches or that you were having a bit of well yeah I actually had my emergency c-section so my first pregnancy went beautiful perfect delivery no issues no complications now my second one she's a beautiful baby girl and that's probably why so what ended up happening is I got sick for three days straight so imagine this is kind of like family in the hospital everyone you know this is like one of our own and we can't stop her from vomiting after her emergency c-section so we tried everything every medication that was actually listed and then not left listed we tried crazy things and finally somebody walked in and said we're gonna put you into a medically induced coma and I was shocked and like that's the best thing we have here and they're like Jackie we've tried everything else so I remembered one slide in anesthesia school about acupressure acupressure at what's called the p6 point of the wrist and at the very same time my stepmom came walking in with a peppermint plant that she had bought from Home Depot and she said here smell this I read it on Google so I was very intrigued again I was smelling leaves and I had a piece of napkin that was literally taped to my wrist and at the same time I kept dropping believes because every time I would smell the peppermint it really worked so I asked my nurse for a piece of tape and I made a wristband combining the two things that was the only thing that ended up working for me and believe it or not nobody else in the world had ever patented it so I did and here we are now five years later and now in hospitals and twelve countries of the world and in thirty thousand retailers that's a big jump for big circle we're gonna have to we're gonna have to jump a little bit farther into that so the best part when you actually when you grow the company it blows up if you do great and fold up jump in just so you're in the hospital you're sick you kind of come up with the idea of the wristband helper helps out with the nausea you use both acupressure after you pay a skew pressure if I could say the word as well as some you know what would be peppermint or you know otherwise essential oils or something that has that smell to to create it and so but at the same time you're you're still a doctor you have you've gone through all of medical school you've gone through all of your training and I assume that you didn't just one day just up and leave the medical field it's probably a bit of a progression so how did that from the day that you had the idea how did it progress you hey I'm going to leave being the you know doctor at the at a hospital or doctors or with clients and certain you know and and jump over to this business full-time I have to say I think it was actually a lack of sleep and hence why I created a sleep product but that's later and I was like every other mom and I now have two children I was up all the time breastfeeding and my mind was racing because this was the only thing that worked so I remember scouring the internet for a product that was like this of some sort and there wasn't any and so for me again I used to do what I called I worked my 7:00 to 5:00 in the operating room in the hospital and then I worked my five to seven and so I was naturally kind of not sleeping as is and that actually gave me the confidence to try to write my provisional patent like I literally love fifteen pages of everything that I can think of all my ideas I used to be an artist not an artist like professionally but drawing for me helps to relieve stress and so upon drawing I was like coming up with all these amazing incredible ideas like how can I incorporate acupressure into a Disney or into a back brace or for other product lines not just the recipe and idea that I didn't have initially so I kind of put it all out there and and then believe it or not I met the perfect people so my medical and my medical plastics manufacturer was actually the guy who invented the ketchup top and then he had invented other products that are actually utilized in the medical lastic space so he knew manufacturers and he kind of his name is Frank he took me up under his wing and he's like come on kid I'm gonna help you out and so we have a really interesting story I guess you could say because it was an instantaneous sense of almost like family and upon doing so he helps me tremendously he helped me get started I had product in six months and then I was literally pedaling out of a bag going to different doctors offices saying here this is a really great product for the moms with morning sickness once I started getting a little traction I had my very first I guess you could say big customer which was stellar an enterprising seller airports so I ended up getting into about 19 different airports I still give them the lowest possible price and then that showed me that it's not just good in the medical industry for you know for labor and delivery for surgery for post-operative nausea and vomiting and cancer it did translate into that retail space so about two years ago I went into that retail space and about the exact same time I ended up quitting my job full-time and the reason why is because my intern she looked at me and said you're amazing with her patients one to one but you can help one to a million with your products what are you waiting for so I jumped but I did I also kind of snuck it in there that I had a what's called my 3x rule as long as I was making three times what I was making in cost though I said that I would jump and then of course I built an incredible team so we're 21 strong and it's been really fun I'm really an incredible journey okay so you blew past a lot that I'm sure people are going to want to know a bit more about which is okay yeah I mean no secret and people say same thing about lawyer so I I guess I get the same thing but you know doctors making good about about here you make a good living typically and you know and so you know a lot of people are gonna say hey first of all you went through what is it ten years of school plus residency or long journey to get a medical degree and you're making in you know and which is most people are gonna say K that's a good thing you know first of all it's a great living you're gonna have probably get them a good amount of job security and so and then you say and you've invested you know a lot of time of your life and law school dodgy but medical schools even boards and so you do all that and then you get to a point you're saying okay I've get you know get a not put it on hold or put it on pause because you still use some of that you know a lot of that with what your product is now but it's a you know certainly different arrangement than what is a doctor and meeting one-on-one and proof you know prescribe medicine kind of as a shift right so I would assume that you eat at least whether is you or the family or people or push back or how was that to say okay I get the 3x role you're saying hey okay I have some runway if things go worse I could probably so I could still go back and be a doctor and I have you know a bit of a fallback if things crashed down but it still seems like it was a big jump or you know so how did you or the family or how did that bill or how did you finally decide to make that leap and did you get any pushback or did anybody think you're crazy oh my gosh I still get pushback I still I always say that the hardest sales are my friends and family they're like you cannot possibly invented something that helps me like but from the very beginning and I must also say I was the sole breadwinner of the family for the first ten years I was married for example and so if you can only imagine my kids had to eat I was the sole breadwinner so I had to make it work and more food on the tables that was a real big driving factor for me and again I'm what they call a hustler you know the dream is free but the hustle is sold separately so that was my push and drive is these two beautiful children that I have to make sure that I really made this into something and actually my do an article importance their favorite line was my my husband actually told me he goes you don't want to do what just graduated you have tons of tons of you know debt and now you want to invest in making these wristbands for a living he's like you know what whatever you could you know you're making the money so I guess I can't say anything about it but there's no way that you're ever gonna make this happen and I was like wait just wait I'm gonna show you and six months later he was my first hire so if that said anything man there's nothing like a woman scorned right so when you get the pushback from your spouse now he's extremely supportive and he's just my number one fan my personal I can't go to because he had more business experience I have zero I never taking a business class never took a marketing class so for me everything was kind of learning on the fly I got what's called the NBA in the trenches and I didn't really know I was an entrepreneur until I became one and then now that I am money man it's like the cycle just goes hard and I can't stop coming up with different ideas and I can't stop him adamian my team is about what what I call the doers I'm the dreamer so they say to me pin that amazing idea though later all right so so was it so you made the job you said okay I've hit my 3x rule I decide you know and I know it still you know it you probably still have a fallback ladder you know and I must say you you want a little bit I always look at kind of the old story of Cortez me you know they land in America and they burn the ships and so there's no no path that so you know that's a little bit of always my mantra Z you know burn the ships you have to be all in in order to make sure or make something work you're always looking you know halfway looking back you're never gonna be successful but was there ever a point after you jumped over as you're getting things going is you know things are starting to take off you're saying man maybe I should go back and be doctor maybe I should maybe I made the wrong decision or maybe I shouldn't have done this was there or wasn't just great you never had any second thoughts and you just took off I wish I could say it was all you know rose petals and everything was amazing but I do have to say there was imparting to me actually what I call or consider my lowest point I never knew that in getting into retail what you sell it to them for in large mass quantities number one you don't receive an actual check for a hundred and eighty days sometimes even longer even though they have you know they have net 45 yeah that's hilarious that never nothing so they you know there's a lot of rules and implications there's a 5% for Murphy's 5% of it there was a point in time where I ran my company based off credit and I'm lucky that I have a really really really good credit score and that's just because the fact that I did my due diligence paying off my students at my student loans but um that's the reality of it I mean it hit so hard at one point in time that I was actually I would sometimes pick up call shifts and I we work on weekends and I would pop in here and there because I was like we are really tight like just to make payroll and that an amazing big break ended up happening it's kind of like every time I'd go to to fall like I'm running running running all the time and I go to fall yeah I get some mud on my face but it never breaks my nose or fractures my face if that makes any sense so it wasn't perfect yeah exactly it wasn't a permanent and structure realignment but I really feel as though no I I am Catholic so for me I know that I feel like this was my purpose this was my mission and I felt like I was being caught by the Lord and he kind of just said listen pick yourself back up and this is what I want to happen and literally like the day after I was considering going back something incredible happened and the US government actually ended up taking my my bid for making a sleep product for PTSD soldiers and so here we go I now have a third manufacturing plant all the debt but I having caught inquired in making new wines was completely wiped away and not just happened literally in an instant so I picked up my family and moved know everybody know be Florida and upon doing so I was the best decision I ever did I spent one year developing for them underneath my pattern for normal sleepless nights and now it's available for retail consumption and online and helps people to sleep better yeah don't we all need that I don't know sometimes you don't want to sleep so you can say up and get things done without that skin so now I'm gonna jump back just because I enjoy it because you always get the highlights right you always get it here kind of how everything was a success and nothing ever happened so when you were in the middle because I and you described what as probably what a lot of people end up going through is you know if your business is going is going is struggling or you're having to figure out how to make payroll you're having to figure out how to make you know pay for the next run of production or that any often times we'll go and look at whether it's dead or a loan or you go to friends and family or you try and hustle and you know get in some side income or that but you know in a mix of all of that how do you deal with it I mean cuz that's not an easy thing right it's gonna be very stressful you're gonna worry if you're you know okay I'm now I'm gonna you know go mortgaging the house so to speak and not saying you wouldn't got it on the house but you have to go and you're saying okay now it's it's no longer fun or it's exciting in the sense that I'm not just making a fist and so how do you how do you deal with that angst or fear or how do you keep moving forward so I've always been a planner and everyone who knows me knows that I have plans a through z literally I'd go after a B and C usually it's somewhere in the realm of F and G where you find me and kind of finding a sweet spot but I you know have things that thought over over in Inferno bridge and I have to say it's very beginning I mean I didn't know how quickly we were going to scale and how fast we were scaling because that was something - when I started networking in with a lot of people who were in the capital realm on different VCS and you'll actually find on one of my old you know and old decks or whatnot like I'm sure somewhere on the internet from doing accomplished here there because I was inquiring money and one of my really good friends he you know he went that route for fun you know funding and he may you know he was raising he raised 1.2 million at the same time that I need 1 3 2 million so I always tell people you know you're going time flies by and you're going to either work on your company or you're going to work at getting what you want or at getting something monetary that you feel as though it's good and it's two different ways I mean me personally hey if you give me five thousand dollars to go gamble on you bet your buttons I'll go you know because it's not my own money I just felt it know that it makes me work harder and you know juggling everything especially from a financial standpoint I did I looked at a lot of different ways and we're very lucky every time we were about to sign a document or we were about you and and I must say network in with the people who are be seized and networking with the people who are angels because I have a bunch of friends that are inside of gosh food realm that can give me money and a heartbeat and it's always better because I tell him they're like what would you do with the money I'm like oh I have this purchase order for example from CVS I you know I have another six thousand stores and I'm fulfilling and they're like you need money to make more money that never happened so it's always important that you kind of go after the people that you could potentially want to pair with before you're in trouble and so I've always I've always done that I've always surrounded myself with really smart people I never want to be the smartest person in the room and so that was my might be the smartest person in the room is like there's a whole lot of other smart people the smartest I just want to make sure everybody else is smart too because I have to say and maybe a medicine whenever I'm you know speaking at a medical conference or something I kind of feel like in my phone but you put me in front one of my really good friends I'll leave his name out of it but he was one of the first round investors for Facebook for uber for Twitter and you know we I taught him how to salsa dance for example we were you know we grab drinks and we laugh all the time because he he just is this huge cattle investor and he's gotten me and introduced me to people that I couldn't have even imagined and so again didn't be a mentor my fairy godmother she got me meetings that I couldn't have ever done and so it's been really fun so did you when you were going through so are you wholly-owned did you ever take investor dollar or take anything or are you oh not you and your husband owned it 100% or how does that work 100% we are a woman owned Latina company that's me a hundred percent still from the very jump all the way up through now and the beauty of it is is that we do have very good margins I have to say I respect margins now more than ever because of the fact that with you know what the coronavirus happening we already sell to different hospitals and I just happen to know the insight on whenever they're getting large PvP PvE orders from outside because I think about so right now it's kind of a very interesting endeavor because my company is also selling other products that aren't ours that have no margin so I must say that our merchants are nice and thick and that it that was that meant that I was doing the right thing and able to keep myself bootstrapped because I invest everything into the business and then from there I'm able to grow it you know twelve hundred percent for example and then I do the same thing over and over again so for a small amount of money that I have to invest I'm able to get a much larger return than these very large borders so it's a it's definitely a means of respect and but also it's the excitement of being able to I don't have to listen to a board I don't have to be told what to do and by the way I don't know if you know any lemon but it doesn't go over very well when people tell that one what we're better at getting orders then receiving numbers they're not so and so if you were to Dan jumpin somebody's looking at trying to side hey do I bootstrap this do I try and figure out how to sell fun or you know go take a side hustle to fund it or I've got an investor there you know they'll they'll give me you know million dollars or five mil whatever the number is but a large amount that will carry our company for a while what's welcome advice would you give them or how do you make that decision I'm sure it's different for everybody but you know what advice would you give them as far as whether or not to sell fun and bootstrap and side hustle or take it cuz sometimes you know you take the investor dollars and it blows you up and you can make it big and where is he died your company might die in the vine because you nephew known if it goes under because you don't have the money vice versa you give money out you go in and take investor dollar it comes with a hand copic you know it can be different if it's a good investor bad and you know certain great investors but it still comes with you're not a fully in control anymore yeah I think there's like two things because pun at time is our most precious commodity so the first thing I would say is look at your books and determine the amount of money over time and I know that sounds kind of weird but most people don't really do that as a time equation but I do though and again this has to do with it whether or not in bootstrap whether or not you know your different clients tell whether or not it's VC capital fund a so you try to figure out how much money you can gross or make off of that money over a certain period of time so some people for example they want you know they want to strike a pan nice and hot because it's like a time function so let's say you were a gown or a mask creating company for example right now is the time to take VC money and to blow it because you basically have another couple weeks of really high intensity versus someone like me you know the 1980 sweatband of acupressure band which was never changed for years that was something they actually developed the first acupressure band the year I was born so it's not old and by any means but you know if almost like 40 years old at this point in time so I have to say that you know you have to describe and determine what that time factor and then the second thing is is just like dating dating getting engaged and getting married you're gonna be in bed with that person or the you know whoever it is that you choose and so I would hope if we all remember back to our dating years that you don't just jump into bed with every single person that comes along your path you analyze them right like you figure out what's in it for you what's in it for me and then that's how I know that I analyze everything I did it over a time back here so amount of money I can make over time and then secondarily the podcast but the point is yeah I mean it is a lot like you know sometimes if you're even with that person more than you are your spouse and especially in the early stage and the startups and that yeah a lot of times you see the people work and you know that more than you do your spouse is you try to get a business up and running so it's very much like dating or even sometimes more so just because of the amount of time and effort it takes to do a business well we are hitting up against towards kind of the end of the podcast and I think it's every podcast I do I always feel like there are about 20 more things it would be fun to talk and discuss and jump into it never quite have all the time why we're not going anywhere from our house we still have the ordinance for about two more weeks so I'm here just in case alright maybe we'll have to do a follow-up episode it will dive into a few more of the few more of the aspects that we didn't have time to but as a wrap-up I always ask two questions at the end of the podcast so we'll do that and so the first question is what was the worst business decision you made alright so I will say that 97x is a local radio station in Tampa and they have a huge the next the next big thing is what it's called it's kind of like an alternative rock concert I mean thousands upon thousands of people go I think that you is like a record year we like eight nine thousand maybe even ten thousand people that were there everyone partying it's myself no mo Naja its Budweiser and it's taco bus so there are it's like you know you get heartburn perfect we can help your upset stomach you get drunk we can help with the hangover so I'm thinking this is like a sealed deal I dumped in about I don't know twenty five thirty thousand dollars is one of like the key three sponsors and guess how much money we made at that concert I by the way you set it up I guess he got very but seventy dollars like seven bands alright after spending so much money so I always tell people that was my biggest most epic marketing failure and you know why because that's not my target demographic know your target know who it is that buys the product my number one pregnant women my number two travelers cruisers people who love to take trains that take planes or business class people for example and then the third is going to be chemotherapy and cancer so that they may have a better well-being so I know that it's outside of those three realms it's just not my bag alright so of course LD baths drug taco-eating that's just not my demographic all right well we've crossed that one off the list so okay second question I always ask so if you're to have someone that's looking to get into either just starting out as a startup or wanting you know always have that desire and wanting to get into it and just just starting out what would be your number one piece of advice to him business is the business of people not products or services so what I mean by that is get out there find your try and make sure that you are well known and well seen that you are synergistic that you are your brand for the first five I'd even argue ten years really there's not a thing that I go on that I don't have at least one person that's like hey no law or what's up no Manasa I mean people as long as they say no Naja I'm fine with it but again I'm always as you can see I'm constantly branded I even have swimsuits I know that sounds crazy buy sell more in a bikini than any any other wardrobe I feel like that I always be selling right you know and pitch they have a pulse and by that I mean you never know who's sitting next to you from the plane you know just your local neighbor my neighbor across from me is the CEO of one of the major hospitals that I sell to and I had absolutely no idea until one day you just started talking so again you don't know who you're sitting next to and you don't know who they know either and so again if you can display your mission I tell everyone I want to invent products that help give people a better sense of health and wellness naturally and they become part of my mission and so it's a weave they always say I remember when you were the first I remember your first pitch I remember and they always feel like they're a part of the journey and so they're the ones who tell everyone hey you're sick on a boat go grab Nomo Naja if you are at home and have a horrible migraine pick up Nomo migraine I mean they are my true know mom almost won like they are my diamond well that that's great it's always great to have the Evangelist it'll go preach to how great your product is so that's awesome well so we're wrapping up and I want to make sure if people wanted to either find out more about you connect up with you or your product what's the best way to reach out to yes absolutely go on our website no mo Naja calm there's tons of different blogs and also hit us up on social at Nomo Naja that's n o mo na USDA on any social media platform so literally you can follow me and what's actually really fun in that tick-tock the new thing because that's actually me my kids crazy things that I end up doing so people get to know who I am and what's really fun is that they've been calling and the office is actually directed into a secondary phone that I have so I'm talking to all of people that are trying to get me testimonials and they're like you tell that nice young lady that I said thank you I'm like you're talking to her so it's so much fun to get back to basics and to get back to the core and not some of the people that I'm helping well awesome well I will definitely tell everybody who has that's not except for the which I don't really know any drug or drug partiers so I I'm in Utah we don't typically drink or we don't smoke we don't party all that often so I don't know anyway but otherwise I'll share it oh here's especially everything's that I opened back up because it's no mo altitude sickness that's something that I'm is actually a pretty big market share for us as well so you can you can share it being that Salt Lake is my actual Park cities my favorite place to ski and I think we talked about that all right well there you go I'll share with all the people that I just like to hit the slopes so thank you again for coming on it's been a pleasure and I appreciate you sharing your journey for everybody else it's joining if you have if you'd like to tell your story your journey you can always go on and apply to be on the show for those of you that are meeting helpful on your journey of patents or trademarks certainly always feel free to reach out to us we're miller IP were always looking to help startups and small businesses to grow their business and protect it along the way so thank you again I appreciate you coming on and it was a great episode thank you so much you you English (auto-generated) All Sales From Miller IP Law Recently uploaded