Don't Have An Entrepreneurial Seizure

Don't Have An Entrepreneurial Seizure

Nate Zeleznick

Devin Miller

The Inventive Journey

Podcast for Entrepreneurs

1/13/2021

Sponsored by findcourses.com and findcourses.co.uk

Also sponsored by Cereal Entrepreneur

The Inventive Journey

Starting and growing a business is a journey. On The Inventive Journey, your host, Devin Miller walks with startups along their different journeys startups take to success (or failure). You also get to hear from featured guests, such as venture firms and angel investors, that provide insight on the paths to a successful inventive journey.

ai generated transcription

don't have an entrepreneurial seizure don't just do it because you're tired of your job look at what it takes to run a business look at all the things that you have to have in a row if you need help talk to devin he will help you if you have a cool idea talk to devin he will help protect you um there's one thing that we've been so hyper vigilant about with what we do being proprietary that we've locked it down so much it actually impeded our growth so we have things trademarked but now i want to look at a patent and how we can protect the methodology more [Music] hey everyone this is devin miller here with another episode of the inventive journey i'm your host devin miller the serial entrepreneur that has grown several startups into seven and eight figure businesses as well as the ceo and founder of miller ip law where we help startups and small businesses with their patents and trademarks and if you ever need help feel free to go to strategymeeting.com and we're always here to help now today we have another great guest on the uh podcast a nate and i'll probably slaughter his last name zlins or zlinsnick maybe zolasnik you're so celesnik i was close so um nate or nathan but uh we'll call him nate i was born and raised in huntsville which actually is just about 10 minutes away from where i'm at and it's another small town or it used to be a small town and now it's growing kind of the same as where we're at but i love the the small town so we uh we grew up in a similar atmosphere in a similar location but after growing up in huntsville then he went to uh weber college and went and got a music scholarship or he had a music scholarship there started to go to school i think he said he didn't quite or didn't finish it up but when or went through part of the degree you left and then you decided as you went uh after you left you wanted to help he wanted to help blind people so he got into looking at different ways to help blind people including some martial arts and visualization i think got a mailer in the video or in the mail about videos in the course and i fell in love with it thought it was a great way and then built on from there got more involved and now has grown that into the business that he's doing today and helping other people with blind and either physically blind or otherwise being able to visualize and be able to see things so with that much is an introduction welcome on the podcast nate thank you very much devin i appreciate it uh honored to be here with you neighbor and um yeah i'm just i'm stoked for our time together today so perfect well i gave just a brief introduction kind of ran through the 22nd version of your story which never does it justice so maybe going back to kind of uh maybe go back to weber and talking about the music scholarship and what made you decide to give that up and go and do other things and how you got to where you're at today but let's dive into your story all right sounds good well yes i'm a huntsville native here and um i didn't know you were native to mountain green i thought that you just lived there so that's awesome i kind of grew up in the small towns uh together alone if that makes sense yeah the two second or thirty second of sight so my my family if you're to go back all the way heritage far enough was the founders of mountain green so i've had i'm related to probably if you look at people that have lived here for a while i'm related to half the county so i'm one of those that have been er family founded the county and have been here ever since gotcha wow okay uh mine or not so when i was not in sixth grade i my mom was a clarinetist when she was in high school and college and out of old clarinet she's like well we better get you ready for music because uh you can't really sing so you're gonna have to play an instrument you know you had one or one choice of the other and though she pulled out her clarinet and then she started teaching me some scales and how to you know how to put the clarinet together and i just took to it it just was i was just a very naturally gifted student in music and so i started performing different places and by the ninth grade i was actually playing with weber state's symphonic band and i was matriculated there in early college from ninth grade uh all the way until i actually matriculated as a full-time student after my senior year of high school so yes i was in music uh into i was not in the music program though my tech sales it was technical sale though okay then uh some scholarship training requirements changed on me and my rightness the end of my junior year and so i wasn't able to continue on through weber state journey however i love that place it's still my alma mater and uh yeah every time i get to go back i keep wondering why did they change all the buildings and make them nicer after i left but after that i went into the workforce and i started working in the fields of mortgage lending and i really enjoyed that however my life took a very significant turn when i was 23. that's in 1998. so i've been involved in martial arts for a long time my younger brother mike he has numerous black belts in different styles before we started doing what we're doing now and he had kind of gotten a little bit burned out on instructing martial arts and he was just you know working at a time share up here in the valley and he didn't really want to get into martial arts again but when i ordered a black belt magazine course that said inner power in two weeks guaranteed or your money back he was like watch it now here in america the internal energy what uh most people would call chi or prana or ki there's different names for it but it's our universal life force the thing that that's life well that's not taught in most martial arts almost none in the united states even though it may have a big component in asia there's a little bit out there especially 20 something years ago for the western mind now it's all over the place so people understand breath work and meditation energy work is so important for our health and help us through a lot of conditions but back then no and so i got this inner power video from well in black belt magazine it was an indonesian news broadcast so i didn't understand a single word but wow the demonstrations that were on there we'd never seen anything like it the western world had never seen anything like this and one of the demonstrations was people running through obstacle courses they were riding bicycles or motorcycles through traffic they were shooting well the military members shooting off like targets out of people's hands and out of their mouth obviously from the side all while blindfolded and we're just like wait a minute that's gotta be bs magicians do that stuff but then it showed a blind man and it was a demonstration for the sultan of oman that you know happened to be on this news broadcast and they were having people from the audience come down and write something on a whiteboard and then draw something and this blind man would go up and he would use his hand and it seemed like he was scanning like kind of like your copy of your dog and scans of a document he was like doing that with his hand and then he would duplicate what was on the board over and over for different people and they even had some fighting on there where people were blindfolded fighting people from the audience it was kind of weird like that doesn't happen here it helps us pull people hey let's throw some punches together but this is uh in the middle east and or in asia and um where it took place however it was very compelling and i had to watch it a few more times we both watched it my brother and i watched it a couple more times because we're like this is nuts if it's real this is some flat out jedi stuff and you know we have things happen in our life the universe sends us signs and the next day i was at a step a traffic light right in front of the utah schools for the deaf and blind in ogden and there was a blind person waiting to cross the street with their dog and they got the go-ahead they got the chirps from the traffic signals and the dog went around the light pole and it led her face first into it and i'm like maybe eight feet away and i'm just going oh my god those dogs aren't they trained to not do that i mean that could be fatal you take a blind person to lead them across the road at the wrong time and then it it just dawned on me i wonder if those indonesian people could help blind people here and so for some reason and i found out later it's actually a genetic and epigenetic reason why i've always been so drawn to helping people with disabilities or people who are disadvantaged people who are in more difficult circumstances than myself no matter what that means but i knew i had to find out do those indonesian people help blind people so i made it my mission and for the next two weeks i was at the weber county library up here in little huntsville because it's the only place to get internet back in those days and i searched and searched and there were only two words that i could understand on the entire news broadcast the words marpati which means dove and puti which means white so the white dove system of martial arts and that was pretty cool because most martial arts are like the black flying snake or the red dragon they're but the piece is a symbol of peace and justice for a martial art that has kind of been compelling so i reached out and i finally got a hold of somebody who could speak english and i asked them can you really help blind people and they said yeah we've helped over 3 000 blind people here so far and we have a foundation for them and we even train our military our most elite special forces members use this for search and rescue and they also use it in live fire missions so i'm sitting here going all right one thing that i do know is governments don't invest millions of dollars they don't invest any time in training special opera special operatives in technology that will get them killed so maybe it's not a trick but i still don't believe it so my brother mike and i i i convinced him because i'm the older brother i basically i told them hey we're going to do this well let me now let me ask one question on that so because i mean the time you would you're working uh and you're doing sales or you're doing real estate sorry or remembering which one you're doing but you're doing um that your brother also had a job so do you guys just say hey we're going to leave our jobs go and check into this dive all in was it kind of a started out as an interest and a side hustle and hey we'll try this out see if it makes sense if we can make a business of it hey this is a personal interest i'm going to take all my leave that i have at work and i'll come back and do my job or kind of how did you make that transition or decision okay so that's an awesome question so what it was was we continued working our jobs i at the time was working at a credit card company in salt lake city so i was making that drive from huntsville to salt lake every day um mike was working at a time share up here so you know 10 minutes away so we continue to work on this but you know the thing is it was a part-time endeavor getting them here no just full disclosure we knew we wouldn't be able to learn it because they had never trained a non-indonesian person before ever we just wanted to be helpful we just wanted to be um you know what it's like here i am like pie in the sky 20 years old i can do anything to conquer the world i want to change the world well i really saw a way i could help facilitate that but i just wanted to hook them up with people in this country that could maybe help them out but i didn't know what i was doing and i didn't know why i was so drawn to helping people with visual disability or visual impairment so um yeah what we did was we continued working our jobs and sold a bunch of stuff and we went to massive credit card debt to bring the first ever demonstration team of this art the marpati puti art to america and we did that in the fall of 1999 and we did demonstrations of the utah schools for the deaf and blind we did them for all of our major news stations here in the state and i even got the opportunity to go to washington dc with them and meet the ambassador and his wife um the ambassador of indonesia and that they did a demonstration there but while we were tripped let me ask one additional follow-up quiz because i think that's interesting so you bring them over to the us you kind of tour them around show what they can do what the you know what they've been trained to and what the application is was it with the intent hey we're going to now start a business around it or you know we're going to start offering his classes we just want to get the information out or you know what was because i mean that's if you're selling a whole bunch of stuff going into debt and everything else you know typically you're going to say i have to be able to recoup that cost somehow in order to make it a worthwhile investment so how did you kind of decide you know what was the plan of if we're gonna rack up all this debt and sell everything off what was the intention behind that well the intention was to work for them and to be liaisons right and to be representatives here and get commissions for contracts that we were able to help secure but we didn't think we'd be able to train because that was forbidden uh over a million people in indonesia had learned this but they were no one had ever been allowed to train a non-indonesian person that would predict from the indonesian royal family and the the which this is a royal family system that was kept secret for over four centuries until it was released to the indonesian public in 1963 but even then no not in donations it was uh yeah very um very secretive and so on this trip to washington dc they started training me a little bit and some of the breath work technique and i have to say it's not like any kind of breath work any other kind of breath work out there in the world down full stop it is unique and what it the whole purpose is to gain more electricity in our body and to turn our body into a generator where we produce a greater electromagnetic charge and it does that very quickly however i didn't know anything about this um i was just like okay she lets you break stuff awesome but the vibra vision we weren't allowed to learn that until later and so we started our training in the fall of 1999 because there just so happened to be a certified trainer for merpatipudi living in salt lake city getting his postdoctoral masters in speech language pathology at the u of u and so when we met him at the airport when they first came in we're just like awesome an indonesian person nice good to meet you it wasn't until after they all went home that when they were leaving they're like okay he's gonna be your trainer and we're like what okay that wasn't part of the bargain i just want to work for you to help out i just feel this compelling need to help people and you can help people because they brought blind people over with them and those blind people those two blind guys they could do anything you or i can do and more you couldn't see their pupils their eyes were completely cloudy and white um and they drove cars bicycles in between they knew stuff was inside drawers be without opening them they could tell what was behind them we'd hold up different colors and they would tell us what it was behind them it was mind-blowing truly so we knew that we had something here now we have never opened a business and it wasn't until you know we were training with this guy in salt lake it wasn't until the fall of 2000 when mike i were able to help sponsor the two 11th generation royal heirs to this knowledge to come over here with one of the 12th generation the oldest son of one of the 11th generation heirs they came over and they were here for about two weeks and date mike and i my sorry my brother's name is mike and so uh they tested mike and i they did an initiation and they inaugurated us as the first ever non-indonesian branch of marpatipudi and they give us the opportunity to teach the martial arts and the breath work in the energy work and the meditation but no vibra vision that requires much more training and testing over there before they would show us the stuff so here we go going into let me ask one more maybe just one more quick question on that so you know so you do you are lighting out in my head so first of all you you said okay we're going to go over there we're going to fly a crew over we we are the intent that we want to work for them or be able to be the kind of the us branch of it you bring them all over tour them around kind of show what they can do and then you know they so they go back i assume after the two weeks today at the end of that two weeks they will let you do kind of a lighter version or the partial portion of this course and be kind of the first u.s or u.s branch of it or what was that timeline was it just immediately after the end of the two weeks was it months after how did you kind of make that transition and then follow on now i know it's a compound question but follow on to that is what did you do with your job or your full-time job you were doing in the meantime kind of how did you make that balance or how did you make that transition sure awesome so so we're talking about two different times say we brought people over the first one in the fall of 1999. then we met our the person who had become our trainer and they said he's going to be your trainer so this fall of 1999 wherever demonstrations that we were staying in utah schools for the deaf and the blind so then there's also the second time that a contingent came over and that was in the fall of 2000 so i just want to make sure clear separation of those two because a lot of it happened with those two times so in 1999 they said yes you can train and he's going to train you and our our trainer here he was a former special forces trainer for this art in indonesia and in addition to being an ear nose and throat surgeon he also trained in the military so he basically tried to kill us he did not want us to learn this he was against westerners learning it but the 11th generation heirs told him yes we want you to train him he's like fine well but if they die on the vine and not my fault and i don't think they're getting strong enough and he put us through a very accelerated and very brutal regimen of so most people learn to meditate because they sit on a cushion and they get it nice and quiet and they light a candle and they sit there and maybe have some incense we learned next to the union pacific railroad in downtown lake city and he would bang pots and pans next to our head we would have to learn to meditate and count our breaths and our heart beats and synchronize our brain waves in the middle of that that was our yeah that was just an example so our training went that way and so we had to go through the ranking structure in record time faster than anybody else ever had in the whole system so usually if you want to train in our level one training it's going to be a six month minimum training from when you start to when you contest ours we only got three months and then for the second level you're supposed to get six months we've got four months and for their level supposed to get six months we got four months and then after that we actually brought somebody from indonesia over here to test us because we're testing for the same rank as our instructor and he couldn't do that right so and you're and you're also working full-time job your full-time job as you're getting trained is that right right okay perfect sorry i didn't mean you're up just wanted to clarify that so go ahead well but then in 2000 when we brought the 11th generation heirs we brought the royal family members over here and they inaugurated our school mike and i quit our jobs our our full-time jobs and we opened school and had our very first class on january 3rd 2001 so on january 3rd coming up will be our 20-year anniversary of owning our business and operating a martial arts school here in utah so that said we can we continued to work at a marketing job in odd times in order to afford our 500 a month rent at the old ogden city mall before it got demolished and didn't take very long before people started seeing us breaking steel and the martial arts skills that we had and you know pouring our own bricks and then chopping through them with very little effort and they're like i want that and so we got enough people uh within about five months i believe about five five or six months to be able to actually do this full time but the um starving artist that's not necessarily just something people say sometimes it's starving martial artists so we ate a lot of ramen a lot of potatoes and a group in a household where we didn't have a lot so we didn't need a lot and so we like most smart business owners should you should put a lot of your money back into your business as much as you can we all i mean that's just unless you have a venture vc funding you have something where somebody a windfall or you just came into it with a big loan or a lot of money like us ten thousand dollars in debt and you have 32 dollars in your bank account total well then there's something else called sweat equity so there's a lot of that that went into this but we know how to really operate a business so we worked very closely with utah small business development center up weber state and they helped us a lot with the understanding of how to set up and manage our business um i'm still learning i'm a perpetual learner i we're now with our vibra vision skill we're not doing nearly as much with the martial arts as we are with that because for blind people it gives them a new sense of sight and new perception around in the world around them but for sighted people it us who have vision a much deeper and under deeper understanding and vision inside ourselves to who we really are so for instance if a blind person and i've got a uh we have blind people that we've trained most of them are in phoenix arizona and we travel back and forth um to train them but a blind person who drops a screw wants you know a screw on the ground they're screwed literally because if you step on a screw and you're blind or you start running screwing you you're not blind it's what we call sucks well you know if somebody drops a screw on their garage floor and they're blind most people feel very defeated if they can't see because then they're on their hands and knees and they're doing this across their entire garage floor trying to find it so who drops a screw to be able to go okay what did i learn okay i'm gonna visualize exactly where that screw is and they see it in their mind reach down and pick it up with two fingers that's a superhuman feet right there diving straight up but what if you're you know or what if you're uh an entrepreneur you're a business owner who has all these things that you have to do and you're not seeing your family or you're not connecting with them nearly as much as you would like what if you're so stressed out that you're literally killing yourself which we are we all know that now that stress is the number one cause of disease over 80 all diseases are caused by stress according to the american medical association so if you're so stressed out that your body's just pumping out cortisol and your adrenals are on blast all the time and you can't get away from that you're waking up with your heartbeat beating out of your chest what if there was a way that you could learn meditations and breath work that would calm your nervous system down allow you to be calm inside be able to lower your blood pressure lower your heart rate lower your stress within a matter of literally minutes naturally and would give you the ability like a super human ability to have intuition that you never even dreamed of how could it help you or anybody out there in your life if you were able to make better business decisions because you could feel it and really trust yourself if you could really connect with your family and with yourself on a deeper level than you ever thought possible and getting the ego out of the way things like this that's why people travel from all over the country and people want to travel from all over the world but that's something to talk i'm going to talk to you about devon with the ip stuff and our patenting but what would that be like most people think that that stuff's just for movies and it's just for superheroes and it's just hollywood but no and i think that there's there's a lot of or you know there's a lot of value in that i mean i think everything and i i've never personally got into it as much as i am or maybe could but you know whether it's taking a break whether it's or or relaxing whether it's controlling your health whether it's being mindful and doing whatever the method and there are a lot of different methods i think some are like you guys do have a lot of value to them and any but you know and everybody has different methods of work for them but one question you know maybe one question going back to the journey just for a little bit is maybe keep us on track just slightly but so you you know you figure out this value proposition right so in the sense that you you got the store that was in the old ogden mall you're doing the training you said okay this is we can help both blind people that to be able to visualize see their surroundings as well as those that have you know physical vision that they can also both control better better understand their surroundings as well as to be able to be more healthy to be more mindful to be able to time manage be able to uh decrease your heart rate all of those things that are all beneficial to them so now walk me through so you you opened up the store did or opened up is it a dojo is it a i don't know what sorry i don't know the terminology he opened up the the opened up the storefront i'll call it a storefront and he did the training so you know what what date was that when he originally opened that up and then how did you kind of where did that lead you to where you're at today well that is a 20-year question right there because we're getting towards the end of the podcast maybe give the 20-year question in like at 30 to 45 seconds just kind of that quick overview absolutely so the majority of our student base came from and always has come from word of mouth so that's not customers right and in five locations so far we've been fortunate that we've always been able to find a new location when we needed it but we've all we seem to have for several times moved into blighted locations so the right great people helping us fix these places up and make them a home and so right now at 17th and wall 1710 wall avenue is amazing it is one of the nicest martial arts schools or fitness schools in the entire state and that's because we have an amazing army of people who love us who love the mission that we have and see our vision for the future of not just ourselves but all of them and so i hope that answered your question that this is not just us it's a lot of other people who have been there by our side helping us but we also have had to really put our nose to the grindstone for 20 years to get this because utah is not necessarily the most open-minded place and so we wanted to make sure that especially with vibravision we took this to science so we have medical we have up to like optometrists verifying it we have blind people who vouch for thousands of people who have viewed it but we also have worked with one of the most renowned neuroscientists on the planet and he has done 3d brain mapping to find out what's happening in the brains of our people and after 25 years him doing it five years over 4 000 people experienced meditators i might add he has never seen anything like what people are putting on his machines and so we wanted to make sure we brought this in a way that wasn't so woo and far out there that people could really wrap their mind around it and it's taken 20 years to really whittle this method down and i give all credit to my brother mike to make it western mindset so if you did so now if i were to now fill in those 20 years or some rides at least for my understanding so you started out you'd start out with one location you said okay we're go we've we're all in we're going to quit our job so to speak we're going to start it what i'll call a dojo and i'm sure it's probably a better terminology like you know start the dojo start training people and start to or to bring or bring what they're doing in indonesia over to the west or to the u.s and do that continue to grow primarily versus or via word of mouth and have opened up a few different locations and continue to outreach to people that will you know in local locations and community where it'll be helpful to them where you can have that ability to have that positive impact and to grow so well that brings us to where we're at today so now you take the next six to 12 months where do you think where do you see yourself headed so where did you know what's uh what's the trajectory or what's the plan for the next six to twelve months well thank you that's a great question first thing that i would like to next thing i would like to mention for all of your viewers and listeners out there is you owe it to yourself to go to amazon.com go to amazon prime video and look at the documentary superhuman the invisible made visible once again that's human the invisible made visible it's on prime you can watch it this so this uh amazing documentary producer named caroline corey who like george actually um she produced a documentary showing people who were able to move things with their mind change the ph of water they were able to affect physical reality or develop super human abilities and then having medical or scientific professionals there documenting it and verifying it it's the first time that i've ever seen this done and we are featured in that so we're toward the end by all means everybody it's free as long as you have a prime account watch it a couple times it will blow your mind and it will inspire you so that that said that also helps us lead into what's coming up in 2021 the next six to 12 months so we run we hold immersion workshops in ogden utah but we also have a weekly class starting on january 8th now this is a unique method so everything is proprietary so we do a background check on every single adult that comes in all right we're teaching only the people with the purest hearts that was part of our promise to the royal family members when they allowed us to do this is that we would train um people that would use it for bad things and so you can contact us through our website at vibra vision v-i-b-r-a-v-i-s-i-o-n dot-com you can register for either for an immersion workshop which we have those coming up every quarter and we also offer people to well we'll do off-site training as well so we have offers from beverly hills from maui from cabo from costa rica dallas we've got all these different places and people that want us to fly there because we're the only people in the entire country that could teach this it's a really unique skill and so it sounds like the next six to twelve months now you're going to be expanding the the location making it so it's more accessible for people across the country and across the world by offering the seminars of the different locations and potentially online is that a fair summary well yes not online though because just in person what we do is strenuous so it's like go to the gym and you're gonna bench press you better have a spotter if you don't well that's uh yeah so we're not gonna put that in the hands of people that way and also because what we do is proprietary we screen we screen people people have to be accepted into this program it's not for everybody just because they want to they have to actually apply but that's one thing that makes it very exclusive is that nobody can is allowed to do this and well you know you can also rest assured that you don't have a psychopath sitting next to you in class because forgot to be not just let everybody in but for people who are really interested in learning more about what they can do and having a reproducible method that is proven to science and medicine that can make you into an actual superhuman in a way fiberrevision.com that's where you're going to find those answers all right perfect well as we wrap up and there's always plenty more things to talk about than always time to talk about them i always ask two questions at the end of the podcast so why don't we jump to those now so the first question is is along your journey what was the worst business decision you ever made and what'd you learn from it you're dropping my whole life savings on powerball i'm just kidding that would be a good that would be a good mistake to make uh okay so the the worst mistake that i have ever made i would say the uh the hardest learning experience that i've ever put myself into i like to put this i've never failed i only learn i would have to say that that would be not sticking to my guns and letting people take advantage of me when it comes to money when it comes to time when it comes to friendship and not having the solidarity within myself to be true to who i am and allowing people to uh walk over me in situations which you wouldn't think that'd come from a martial artist right because punch them in the throat no it doesn't exactly work that way um when it comes down to our inner confidence so that's that's fair enough and that's i think a good good thing to learn along your journey so now i'm going to jump to the second question which is you talking to someone that's just getting to a startup or a small business what would be the one piece of advice you'd give them very first thing is don't have an entrepreneurial seizure don't just do it because you're tired of your job look at what it takes to run a business look at all the things that you have to have in a row if you need help talk to devin he will help you if you have a cool idea talk to devin he will help protect you um there's one thing that we've been so hyper vigilant about with what we do being proprietary that we've locked it down so much it actually impeded our growth so we have things trademarked but now i want to look at a patent and how we can protect the methodology more so you have free resources available for you small business development centers are all over the country there's all kinds of information that uh like devin and i when we were starting our businesses a long long time ago we didn't have the internet we didn't have youtube we didn't have these resources where you could go on and you can get help you can get rocket lawyer or whatever for find out is it legal to do this in my area with this kind of business whatever you need to do but i like that because i think that and i like the first point of no have the entrepreneur i never heard the entrepreneur seizure but it is that kind of thing of don't just make the knee-jerk reaction of hey i don't like what i'm doing or i don't want to keep doing what i'm doing i hate my job type of thing because you know as the old joke goes you know the best thing about working for yourself is you get to choose or the 80 hours a week that you work type of a thing and so most of the time going to be an entrepreneur isn't any easy now it can be rewarding you can be your own boss you can guide your own ship but it's not going to be just easy straight and it's not like the movies show where you work for two or three hours a day and then you get a play for the rest of the day so i like i'd like that as a feedback we've already kind of hit on a few ways for people to find out more about you your business connect up with you but is there any other ways or that would be helpful if people want to find out more about your business about what you're doing connect up with you personally be your next best friend any or all the above any other good ways to reach out to you sure absolutely well uh you can go and our website is the best way but you can find me on facebook nate zolaznick you can also look for vibra vision usa or we also have a foundation we have a 501c3 where people can donate to help blind people learn this and also help our scientific research and that's the vibra vision foundation and you can find me on linkedin you can find me on twitter you can find us pretty much everywhere so you just look for vibravision and if it's uh if it's a lighting company a rave lighting company from australia that ain't us there's one other company my provision and uh they're in australia they provide all right fair enough well i certainly uh encourage people to reach out find out more be a customer be a user get trained be a supporter to be a donator or whatever fits in with what they're looking for now for all of you that are listeners if you have your own journey to tell and you'd like to come on and be a guest on the podcast feel free to go to inventivejourneyguest.com we always love to tell your in your stories and your journeys if you're a listener make sure to click subscribe so you get notifications as all the new awesome episodes come out and last but not least if you ever need help with patents trademarks or anything else feel free to reach out to us at miller ip law by going to strategymeeting.com thank you again nate for coming on it's been a pleasure to have you and wish the next leg of your journey even better than the last thank you so much devin i appreciate it it's honored to be here thanks you English (auto-generated) All Recently uploaded